Religion.

Post by **Dogbreath** » Thu Mar 06, 2003 8:53 pm

Okay, now we've had users from North America (US, Canada, Virgin Isles), South America (Chile), Europe (England, Netherlands, France, Estonia, Germany), Asia (Japan, maybe Singapore), Australia (Australia), and Africa (Algeria). If someone from a science outpost in Antartica would post... we'd have all seven!

Amro: My dad has been to Africa before, Kenya and Tansania. He had a hard time with the Muslim locals because he's left handed.

John The Ax · Post by **John The Ax** » Thu Mar 06, 2003 8:54 pm

Evil! Evil!

Bobo · Post by **Bobo** » Thu Mar 06, 2003 10:25 pm

:Angry:
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Man, I suck at this...

Anyway Dogbreath has another point, Left Hands.

Post by **Dogbreath** » Thu Mar 06, 2003 11:20 pm

Actually, I find they can be quite useful...

Kazer0 · Post by **Kazer0** » Fri Mar 07, 2003 1:16 pm

i use both. Ha ha ha. Canada Rocks!

486 player · Post by **486 player** » Sat Mar 08, 2003 7:48 am

Art thou Bobo a creationist?

John The Ax · Post by **John The Ax** » Sat Mar 08, 2003 7:53 am

Personally, I'm a Divine Evolutionist.

God used evolution as a means, not as an end-all process. And he created people.

Amro · Post by **Amro** » Sat Mar 08, 2003 1:27 pm

What do you mean he had trouble? My cousin's left handed. And where I used to live one of the Imams was left-handed. Or maybe he was in a stranded village.

Post by **Dogbreath** » Sat Mar 08, 2003 5:16 pm

Muslims take offence if you eat with your left hand.

Amro · Post by **Amro** » Sat Mar 08, 2003 8:48 pm

Oh that. No not really. Only extremists. Some foods are eaten with both hands.

Bobo · Post by **Bobo** » Wed Jan 07, 2004 10:17 pm

Do Muslims pray to the same God as the Christians/Jews?
Sense the C/Js are the people of the book (Koran). Yet Muslims believe in a single God. - God the Father, Ja Jibbar for one Arabic Name. Koran, in the Cow (near the end), "...God forbid he should have a son!". Note: This is a close translation of the TRUE Arabic Text.

C/Js beleive in a trinity. - God the Father, God the Son, and the Holy Spirit. God the Father created the Son to save the sins of those who believe in him and the Holy Spirit it sustain them after his departure.

If I'm wrong anywhere please note it

denrix · Post by **denrix** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 12:31 am

Bobo wrote:C/Js beleive in a trinity. - God the Father, God the Son, and the Holy Spirit. God the Father created the Son to save the sins of those who believe in him and the Holy Spirit it sustain them after his departure.

yep. all that is true. and precisely the Trinity, is one of the arguments that many theologist use to prove that Christianism is a polytheist religion. go figure that.

Post by **emmzee** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 11:21 am

"C/Js beleive in a trinity. - God the Father, God the Son, and the Holy Spirit. God the Father created the Son to save the sins of those who believe in him and the Holy Spirit it sustain them after his departure. "

This is not what Christians believe, specifically the "created" part. The word used is always, afaik, "begotted". So the Son is different than every created thing. The Son is described as existing before the world began:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning." (John 1:1-2) ... then later: "The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the Only Begotten, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth." (John 1:14)

So from those passages (and many others), Jesus is believed by Christians to be God; the nature of the Trinity is that God is one, but three at the same time. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all one God; revealed to us in three ways, if you want to think of it that way.

Jewish people, on the other hand, do not believe that Jesus is God. So in this way C/J do not believe in the "same" God.

(As stated by Bobo, please correct me if I'm wrong about something here. I'm a fairly new Christian so my grip on some things may not be very good.)

Awhile back I wrote what I think is an interesting essay about the Trinity ... its supposed to be for both Christians and non-Christians:
http://www.emmzee.com/tryjesus
Yea I'm one of those "Jesus freaks"

Joris · Post by **Joris** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 2:33 pm

Bobo wrote:Do Muslims pray to the same God as the Christians/Jews?

Nope.

denrix · Post by **denrix** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 3:38 pm

1. the kamikazes in Israel are not dying in the name of Islam. They are dying because they are fighting for their national cause, and they know that the only way to win that cause in the international arena, is to stress as much as they can religious background.

2.

"O ye who believe! the law of equality is prescribed to you in cases of murder: the free for the free, the slave for the slave, the woman for the woman. But if any remission is made by the brother of the slain, then grant any reasonable demand, and compensate him with handsome gratitude, this is a concession and a Mercy from your Lord. After this whoever exceeds the limits shall be in grave penalty. (The Noble Quran, 2:178)"

so, murder is allowed only to answer back murder when it is INTENTIONAL. Just like the "an eye for an eye" thing in Christianism. but notice the, "grave penalty" thing in teh end, nobody should get too much carried away by revenge,or they might get in deep shit.

3.

"...if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people...(Noble Quran 5:32)"

"Those who invoke not, with God, any other god, nor slay such life as God has made sacred except for just cause, nor commit fornication; - and any that does this (not only) meets punishment. (But) the Penalty on the Day Of Judgement will be doubled To him, and he will dwell Therein in ignominy. (The Noble Quran, 25:68-69)"

Here we see that if you kill one innocent person (whether it was a Muslim soul or not), then it is like committing a crime against all people. We also see that the innocent soul is considered a "sacred" soul.

4.

"Never should a believer kill a believer; but (If it so happens) by mistake, (Compensation is due): If one (so) kills a believer, it is ordained that he should free a believing slave, and pay compensation to the deceased's family, unless they remit it freely. If the deceased belonged to a people at war with you, and he was a believer, the freeing of a believing slave (Is enough). If he belonged to a people with whom ye have treaty of Mutual alliance, compensation should be paid to his family, and a believing slave be freed. For those who find this beyond their means, (is prescribed) a fast for two months running: by way of repentance to God: for God hath all knowledge and all wisdom. (The Noble Quran, 4:92)"

So, if the murder was ACCIDENTAL, there will be no payback murder, as in case 2 (see above.)

5.

Despite all of this hostility between the Muslims and the Pagans and the Jews and Christians, Allah Almighty in the Noble Quran prohibited for the Muslims to violate anyone who wanted peace:

"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loveth not transgressors. (The Noble Quran, 2:190)"

Fighting in the cause of GOD Almighty those who fight us is what "Jihad" is all about. I can't go and kill a non-Muslim just because he is a non-Muslim. That is absolutely forbidden in Islam.

Post by **Dogbreath** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 3:50 pm

Judaism (the religion Christianity gets its Old Testament from) has an interesting concept about the name of God whereas God the Father has different names describing his attributes.

The 3 primary names of God are:

1. Jehovah (Yahweh, roughly meaning "Self Existent One.” Lit. "I am that I am")

2. Elohim-String one.

3 Adonia-Lord.

From Elohim we derive the compound names of El Elyon, El Roi, El Olam and El Shaddai. From Jehovah we derive Jehovah Jireh, Jehovah Nissi, Jehovah Shalom, Jehovah Shammon, Jehovah Maccaddeshcem (some people consider this to be an OT reconization of Cheezits and Rice*), Jehovah Raah, Jehovah Tsidkenu, Jehovah El Gmolah, Jehovah Nakeh, and Jehovah Shammah. If you don't know their meaning, look 'em up because I'm too lazy to post them.

Recently in religious discussions here (Indianapolis Religion Convention), many people have said that Allah and Jehovah are one in the same. This is disproving by the fact Islam denies the fulfillment of the covenant impersonated in Cheezits and Rice. (If Jehovah was Allah, it would make God out to be a liar)

Joris: The *first* church was founded by Peter at the day of Pentecost 50 days after the resurrection or 10 days after assention. Paul was a missionary to the Gentiles and helped spread the church through Europe with his companions Luke and John Mark.

*The Lord Your Sanctifier, this would mean that Jesus was a person and in existence prior to his birth thus proving his divinity.

Da_Goat · Post by **Da_Goat** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 11:57 pm

1. Jehovah (Yahweh, roughly meaning "Self Existent One.” Lit. "I am that I am")

("He causes to become" is another accepted meaning of Yahweh)

And, in case you didn't know, that name came from the Hebrew tetragrammaton.

Bobo · Post by **Bobo** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 5:21 pm

Just picking your brain guys.

Koran-
La illaha illa Alla. - There is no God but God - Not the trinity -
Say: By no means, we believe in the faith of Abraham, Ishmael... And the tribes. We believe in Jesus the prophet sent to us by our Lord. - Cow, near the beginning -
I'm going to need to read the Koran again. I can't remember where specificly these verses are located...

Next Question-
Muslims believe that the New Testament was currupted by Paul just after Christs death. The Old Testament is still true. Yet Mohamid (Inspired by God) wrote-
If you are in doubt of what we have revealed unto you, ask those who have been reading The Book (Bible) sence before you, so be in no doubt of those who are in doubt. (Surah 10:49)

So he is basicly saying, the Bible is true. Yet that counters everything he has said before or he is trying to currupt those who are in doubt.

Ja Jabbar - "Mighty one"

Post by **Dogbreath** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 8:07 pm

My question is why does Islam try to be inclusive of Judaism and Christianity? As I've shown via names of God in the OT (and Emmzee in the New) that Allah equaling Jehovah would be contradicting many things about both religions. I'm not saying Islam is somehow evil because Allah is not Jehovah (it does have much truth to it), just that modern day religious "experts" shouldn't claim they are the same-they are two different beings.

Post by **emmzee** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 8:30 pm

"Muslims believe that the New Testament was currupted by Paul just after Christs death. The Old Testament is still true."

IMHO ... there are only two choices when it comes to the New Testament. Either someone believes it is the inspired word of God, or they don't.

If it is NOT the inspired word of God (Jesus really is NOT God):
... then surely (many) parts of it are not true. Which parts, exactly? Who knows. So essentially, if it is not the inspired word of God, you might as well just forget about it. I mean, I don't want to have faith in a symbol, or a nice idea. I want reality!

But if it IS the inspired word of God (ie. Jesus IS God):
... then it all must be true. Since if Jesus is real He would not allow false things to be recorded about himself in His official record. Remember the entire NT was written much less <100yrs after Jesus' death. What purpose would it solve for God to come and then allow the only written record of his appearance to be corrupted within the first generation? That makes no sense. So, necessarily, believers must believe that the NT is accurate in all respects and has not been corrupted.

Dunno if that made sense or not, I'm typing this off the top of my head ...